I'm getting ready to go bid a very large cedar shake, two story, mansard roof. Any tips on propelling the bleach wash when i'm done? I'm thinking I'll use my wand supplied by a 5 gal bucket and my ground man.
If I do use a 5 gal bucket are there any thoughts on the amount of BW I should add to a full bucket?
I plan a 1.5% mix based on my conversation with him but wont know until I see it. I plan to add extra green wash to help it stick to the near vertical roof surface but am concerned about too much foaming as well.
Any thoughts are well appreciated.
-- Edited by Doug Trins on Saturday 5th of April 2014 12:58:45 PM
Huey Miller said
Apr 5, 2014
1/2 Oz per gallon
Tim Teed said
Apr 5, 2014
If you are doing a large cedar roof, you should be $.65 - $1.00/sf Try to buy a 3/4 horse booster pump. There is so much rinsing, it speeds it up a lot. Get the gilmour sprayer that has the brass color dial on top and you can attach that to hose from booster pump and spray a long distance. You need volume of water to rinse.
Edward Yackenovich said
Apr 5, 2014
Doug, here is a video on the Gilmore....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKRNM16MSMs
Michael Derose said
Apr 5, 2014
you should really use oxalic to neutralize wood.
Doug G said
Apr 5, 2014
Michael Derose wrote:
you should really use oxalic to neutralize wood.
Can you give details?
BTW......its cedar shingles and not shakes.
I'll upload pic's in a bit but I applied a 2% mix to 3 different areas and they were all barely affected. To be honest it was a bit embarrassing to have virtually nothing happen at all. My chem tank was dry so I couldn't add anymore SH. Funny thing was it was a 3% mix but I toned it down for the cedar shingles.
I'm assuming I'll need a stronger mix but everything I read said 1% - 1 1/2% mix
Eric Owen said
Apr 5, 2014
Doug
Cedar roofs will take a lot of mix the last big roof I did took over 250gals of 2% and It required two days.
I was injecting terra wash and used about 6gal on that job and I charged 50 cents sq ft.
Invest in a booster pump it is a great time saver for rinsing, applying bleach wash, plant wash.
Dan Dykstra said
Apr 5, 2014
Eric.
The price on cedar should be much higher than your regular roof price. I charge anywhere from 1.00 - 1.50 per sq foot on cedar roofs. They take much more chems and time. It is nothing to spend 4 days on one roof up here in my area.
I just booked one cedar roof that is 1500 sq and I am charging north of 4500 for it.
Eric Owen said
Apr 5, 2014
Dan Dykstra wrote:
Eric.
The price on cedar should be much higher than your regular roof price. I charge anywhere from 1.00 - 1.50 per sq foot on cedar roofs. They take much more chems and time. It is nothing to spend 4 days on one roof up here in my area.
I just booked one cedar roof that is 1500 sq and I am charging north of 4500 for it.
. Dan the prices you get up your way are FL fantasy dream come true prices!! Rock On Your The Man Lol!!
Bill Booz said
Apr 6, 2014
This is why talking in percentage of free chlorine doesn't work. Your free% of available chlorine changes every day in your bulk SH. You probably thought you had 2% but it has weakened as bleach does so you really didn't. Also when you guys talk about available chlorine as % of mix do you mean by volume or by weight? Both are listed on the packing label. Also do you mean free chlorine or available chlorine? AS I already know most of you don't know what I'm talking about so maybe AC and you guys can give the % thing a break? It makes it a lot harder to explain things and probably keeps some people from bothering to figure it out and answer peoples questions, which is generally why I come here. I know I have skipped a few chances to help someone because I didn't have time to get past the % thing so we could talk about facts. % of free chlorine can only be measured by testing, so guessing at it is just that and assumptions are business killers. I don't deal in assumptions and guesswork. Let's stick with measurable facts.
-- Edited by Bill Booz on Sunday 6th of April 2014 07:56:48 PM
Doug G said
Apr 6, 2014
Bill Booz wrote:
This is why talking in percentage of free chlorine doesn't work. Your free% of available chlorine changes every day in your bulk SH. You probably thought you had 2% but it has weakened as bleach does so you really didn't. Also when you guys talk about available chlorine as % of mix do you mean by volume or by weight? Both are listed on the packing label. Also do you mean free chlorine or available chlorine? AS I already know most of you don't know what I'm talking about so maybe AC and you guys can give the % thing a break? It makes it a lot harder to explain things and probably keeps some people from bothering to figure it out and answer peoples questions, which is generally why I come here. I know I have skipped a few chances to help someone because I didn't have time to get past the % thing so we could talk about facts. % of free chlorine can only be measured by testing, so guessing at it is just that and assumptions are business killers. I don't deal in assumptions and guesswork. Let's stick with measurable facts.
-- Edited by Bill Booz on Sunday 6th of April 2014 07:56:48 PM
So tell us or PM me on the right way. I'm willing to listen and want to learn more!
Bill Booz said
Apr 6, 2014
The rest of the roof cleaning world just talks in percentages of SH to water or CH to water. % of chemical to % of water. My mixes tend to be 30% SH. That's part of why it gets confusing. No need to PM here brother. My goal is to educate people as a whole.
I wanted to add this too, when you buy 12.5% that is a packaging requirement. My 12.5% comes analyzed the day before I get it and it is usually 15.2-15.8% by volume available free chlorine. The tank they fill says it's 12.5%. 12.5% is the nice # they all came up with to say it's between 10-20%
Bill Booz said
Apr 6, 2014
Here is my latest order analysis. You will see they call the product Liquichlor, 12.5% but it's almost 16% and the criteria for shipment is +-15%
They test it every 6-8 months so I still don't know how strong it really is....
Eric Owen said
Apr 6, 2014
Bill Booz wrote:
This is why talking in percentage of free chlorine doesn't work. Your free% of available chlorine changes every day in your bulk SH. You probably thought you had 2% but it has weakened as bleach does so you really didn't. Also when you guys talk about available chlorine as % of mix do you mean by volume or by weight? Both are listed on the packing label. Also do you mean free chlorine or available chlorine? AS I already know most of you don't know what I'm talking about so maybe AC and you guys can give the % thing a break? It makes it a lot harder to explain things and probably keeps some people from bothering to figure it out and answer peoples questions, which is generally why I come here. I know I have skipped a few chances to help someone because I didn't have time to get past the % thing so we could talk about facts. % of free chlorine can only be measured by testing, so guessing at it is just that and assumptions are business killers. I don't deal in assumptions and guesswork. Let's stick with measurable facts.
-- Edited by Bill Booz on Sunday 6th of April 2014 07:56:48 PM
. Bill I think every one is talking about volume in the tank not actual PPM strength witch can only be tested for.
Are you testing all your SH for PPM strength each time every day? Example 300,000 PPM =3%
I have a pool I do know the difference between free and available chlorine.
Bill Booz said
Apr 6, 2014
Yes Eric they are talking about volume of available free chlorine in the tank if that's what you mean. At least that's how AC and I have discussed it. But as I showed above that # will usually be wrong still. No I don't test it, and have no reason too. Please don't take offense to my irritation. The way it is being described here is 12.5% free chlorine by volume diluted to 1-5% free chlorine by volume. The amount of available free chlorine changes daily just as the ppm do.
AC and I have debated this a few times
-- Edited by Bill Booz on Sunday 6th of April 2014 09:26:12 PM
Lee Kendall said
Apr 6, 2014
Bill Booz wrote:
The rest of the roof cleaning world just talks in percentages of SH to water or CH to water. % of chemical to % of water. My mixes tend to be 30% SH. That's part of why it gets confusing. No need to PM here brother. My goal is to educate people as a whole.
I wanted to add this too, when you buy 12.5% that is a packaging requirement. My 12.5% comes analyzed the day before I get it and it is usually 15.2-15.8% by volume available free chlorine. The tank they fill says it's 12.5%. 12.5% is the nice # they all came up with to say it's between 10-20%
Im with Bill- 1gallon of SH in 100 gallons means 1 percent- For cedar we do about 15-20% depending is there is moss or not.. Did a decent size job yesterday, we use a 8gpm pressure washer on maybe 90 psi to rinse-still takes forever...
-- Edited by Lee Kendall on Sunday 6th of April 2014 09:28:03 PM
Im with Bill- 1gallon of SH in 100 gallons means 1 percent- For cedar we do about 15-20% depending is there is moss or not.. Did a decent size job yesterday, we use a 8gpm pressure washer on maybe 90 psi to rinse-still takes forever...
-- Edited by Lee Kendall on Sunday 6th of April 2014 09:28:03 PM
Bill Booz wrote:
Sorry I think I hijacked this thread :(
No Bill....you didn't. We're here to discuss and learn. Topics bounce around as a natural point of that process.
This was confusing to me in the very beginning. I took 1-3% literally and added 3 gals of SH to a 30 gal tank and my mix did nothing. Bumped it to 10 gals of SH and presto. 3% in my head is 30% considering 12.5 simply as a 100% chem.
Is it right....no, but its working for now. The issue is once you start cutting it down or wanting to beef it up.
Maybe I should go to the pool store and buy the strips to tell me what my mix is.
Mike Wedge said
Apr 7, 2014
Try not to over think it Doug, I start all my mixes at 30% 0r 3% what ever you want to call it. Maybe wasting some SH but I have not had any issues. Just remember to apply light, even coats and re-coat when necessary. Bill is 100% correct in that you will never know the exact strength by the time it comes out the gun. If your going to rinse it regardless than bump it up to 4% charge for the added materials and go to town. Make sure your rinsing the copper frequently and don't let the mix dry on it. I did a gerard roof that required 5% before it would have the desired affect I wanted. And the only reason I found that out is because I decided to take a spray bottle with straight SH and test a spot to see what would happen. If your going to demos be prepared to try different things. There is no Bible to Roof Cleaning sometimes you just have to improvise. I also agree with the oxolic.
Doug G said
Apr 7, 2014
Where do I get the oxolic?
I'll do some research but if there's a easy answer....:}
Bill Booz said
Apr 7, 2014
Any bulk chemical supplier will sell you the oxalic in 55lb bags for around $100
Try your SH supplier, if they aren't able then try Univar or Brainard chem. If that fails look for bulk dry chemical suppliers in your area. Also most power washer distributors sell it under a label like deck brightener.
Thanks for your statement above Doug.
Jesse Bracken said
Apr 7, 2014
Doug Trins wrote:
Bill Booz wrote:
This is why talking in percentage of free chlorine doesn't work. Your free% of available chlorine changes every day in your bulk SH. You probably thought you had 2% but it has weakened as bleach does so you really didn't. Also when you guys talk about available chlorine as % of mix do you mean by volume or by weight? Both are listed on the packing label. Also do you mean free chlorine or available chlorine? AS I already know most of you don't know what I'm talking about so maybe AC and you guys can give the % thing a break? It makes it a lot harder to explain things and probably keeps some people from bothering to figure it out and answer peoples questions, which is generally why I come here. I know I have skipped a few chances to help someone because I didn't have time to get past the % thing so we could talk about facts. % of free chlorine can only be measured by testing, so guessing at it is just that and assumptions are business killers. I don't deal in assumptions and guesswork. Let's stick with measurable facts.
-- Edited by Bill Booz on Sunday 6th of April 2014 07:56:48 PM
So tell us or PM me on the right way. I'm willing to listen and want to learn more!
Count me in on that !!!
jess
Jesse Bracken said
Apr 7, 2014
This is very educational. I haven't yet started any modules (waiting for the codes or what ever) but assume that this would be covered in there somewhere. I saw an illustrated fact sheet somewhere showing SH, green wash, water I think...
Great discussion BTW
Jess
AC Lockyer said
Apr 7, 2014
Bill Booz wrote:
This is why talking in percentage of free chlorine doesn't work. Your free% of available chlorine changes every day in your bulk SH. You probably thought you had 2% but it has weakened as bleach does so you really didn't. Also when you guys talk about available chlorine as % of mix do you mean by volume or by weight? Both are listed on the packing label. Also do you mean free chlorine or available chlorine? AS I already know most of you don't know what I'm talking about so maybe AC and you guys can give the % thing a break? It makes it a lot harder to explain things and probably keeps some people from bothering to figure it out and answer peoples questions, which is generally why I come here. I know I have skipped a few chances to help someone because I didn't have time to get past the % thing so we could talk about facts. % of free chlorine can only be measured by testing, so guessing at it is just that and assumptions are business killers. I don't deal in assumptions and guesswork. Let's stick with measurable facts.
-- Edited by Bill Booz on Sunday 6th of April 2014 07:56:48 PM
Bill is correct. This is why the mixology sheet keeps measurements in 1/10 and accounts for degradation to levels of 10% available SH in your starting bulk bleach.
AC
Eric Owen said
Apr 7, 2014
Doug Trins wrote:
Where do I get the oxolic?
I'll do some research but if there's a easy answer....:}
. Doug this site will have every thing you want to know about SH http://powellfab.com
Doug G said
Apr 7, 2014
Thanks Eric......looks pretty in depth. I'll need a bit of time to float through this one.....:}
I'm getting ready to go bid a very large cedar shake, two story, mansard roof. Any tips on propelling the bleach wash when i'm done? I'm thinking I'll use my wand supplied by a 5 gal bucket and my ground man.
If I do use a 5 gal bucket are there any thoughts on the amount of BW I should add to a full bucket?
I plan a 1.5% mix based on my conversation with him but wont know until I see it. I plan to add extra green wash to help it stick to the near vertical roof surface but am concerned about too much foaming as well.
Any thoughts are well appreciated.
-- Edited by Doug Trins on Saturday 5th of April 2014 12:58:45 PM
1/2 Oz per gallon
Doug, here is a video on the Gilmore....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKRNM16MSMs
Can you give details?
BTW......its cedar shingles and not shakes.
I'll upload pic's in a bit but I applied a 2% mix to 3 different areas and they were all barely affected. To be honest it was a bit embarrassing to have virtually nothing happen at all. My chem tank was dry so I couldn't add anymore SH. Funny thing was it was a 3% mix but I toned it down for the cedar shingles.
I'm assuming I'll need a stronger mix but everything I read said 1% - 1 1/2% mix
Cedar roofs will take a lot of mix the last big roof I did took over 250gals of 2% and It required two days.
I was injecting terra wash and used about 6gal on that job and I charged 50 cents sq ft.
Invest in a booster pump it is a great time saver for rinsing, applying bleach wash, plant wash.
The price on cedar should be much higher than your regular roof price. I charge anywhere from 1.00 - 1.50 per sq foot on cedar roofs. They take much more chems and time. It is nothing to spend 4 days on one roof up here in my area.
I just booked one cedar roof that is 1500 sq and I am charging north of 4500 for it.
Rock On Your The Man Lol!!
This is why talking in percentage of free chlorine doesn't work. Your free% of available chlorine changes every day in your bulk SH. You probably thought you had 2% but it has weakened as bleach does so you really didn't. Also when you guys talk about available chlorine as % of mix do you mean by volume or by weight? Both are listed on the packing label. Also do you mean free chlorine or available chlorine? AS I already know most of you don't know what I'm talking about so maybe AC and you guys can give the % thing a break? It makes it a lot harder to explain things and probably keeps some people from bothering to figure it out and answer peoples questions, which is generally why I come here. I know I have skipped a few chances to help someone because I didn't have time to get past the % thing so we could talk about facts. % of free chlorine can only be measured by testing, so guessing at it is just that and assumptions are business killers. I don't deal in assumptions and guesswork. Let's stick with measurable facts.
-- Edited by Bill Booz on Sunday 6th of April 2014 07:56:48 PM
So tell us or PM me on the right way. I'm willing to listen and want to learn more!
I wanted to add this too, when you buy 12.5% that is a packaging requirement. My 12.5% comes analyzed the day before I get it and it is usually 15.2-15.8% by volume available free chlorine. The tank they fill says it's 12.5%. 12.5% is the nice # they all came up with to say it's between 10-20%
Here is my latest order analysis. You will see they call the product Liquichlor, 12.5% but it's almost 16% and the criteria for shipment is +-15%
Are you testing all your SH for PPM strength each time every day? Example 300,000 PPM =3%
I have a pool I do know the difference between free and available chlorine.
Yes Eric they are talking about volume of available free chlorine in the tank if that's what you mean. At least that's how AC and I have discussed it. But as I showed above that # will usually be wrong still. No I don't test it, and have no reason too. Please don't take offense to my irritation. The way it is being described here is 12.5% free chlorine by volume diluted to 1-5% free chlorine by volume. The amount of available free chlorine changes daily just as the ppm do.
AC and I have debated this a few times
-- Edited by Bill Booz on Sunday 6th of April 2014 09:26:12 PM
Im with Bill- 1gallon of SH in 100 gallons means 1 percent- For cedar we do about 15-20% depending is there is moss or not.. Did a decent size job yesterday, we use a 8gpm pressure washer on maybe 90 psi to rinse-still takes forever...
-- Edited by Lee Kendall on Sunday 6th of April 2014 09:28:03 PM
No Bill....you didn't. We're here to discuss and learn. Topics bounce around as a natural point of that process.
This was confusing to me in the very beginning. I took 1-3% literally and added 3 gals of SH to a 30 gal tank and my mix did nothing. Bumped it to 10 gals of SH and presto. 3% in my head is 30% considering 12.5 simply as a 100% chem.
Is it right....no, but its working for now. The issue is once you start cutting it down or wanting to beef it up.
Maybe I should go to the pool store and buy the strips to tell me what my mix is.
Try not to over think it Doug, I start all my mixes at 30% 0r 3% what ever you want to call it. Maybe wasting some SH but I have not had any issues. Just remember to apply light, even coats and re-coat when necessary. Bill is 100% correct in that you will never know the exact strength by the time it comes out the gun. If your going to rinse it regardless than bump it up to 4% charge for the added materials and go to town. Make sure your rinsing the copper frequently and don't let the mix dry on it. I did a gerard roof that required 5% before it would have the desired affect I wanted. And the only reason I found that out is because I decided to take a spray bottle with straight SH and test a spot to see what would happen. If your going to demos be prepared to try different things. There is no Bible to Roof Cleaning sometimes you just have to improvise. I also agree with the oxolic.
I'll do some research but if there's a easy answer....:}
Try your SH supplier, if they aren't able then try Univar or Brainard chem. If that fails look for bulk dry chemical suppliers in your area. Also most power washer distributors sell it under a label like deck brightener.
Thanks for your statement above Doug.
Count me in on that !!!
jess
Great discussion BTW
Jess
Bill is correct. This is why the mixology sheet keeps measurements in 1/10 and accounts for degradation to levels of 10% available SH in your starting bulk bleach.
AC
Thanks Eric......looks pretty in depth. I'll need a bit of time to float through this one.....:}