We are having a very bad problem with a light beige siding leaving awful looking streaks after the SH was applied and rinsed off with water. Usually this happens just a little with rust or other things such as dirt or dust coming out of the breather holes in the siding but these apartments buildings are doing it very badly and I cant seam to get the siding to dry without leaving the steaks behind. would spaying BW after the SH is applied take care of this? I'm in a bad bind as we have 21 buildings to clean and it is not going very well. Any help is appreciated!
PHOTO: You can see in this photo that the darker streaks are still drying and will dry the same as the other streaks you see all over the siding. Is this because the SH is getting behind the siding and not being washed off enough? I doubt that though because we have tried washing it very thoroughly. However I have not been back to try and wash off the SH while all the siding is still wet. example, Spray on SH, rinse off with water, Spray on BW, Rinse off with water. This may work but I am doubtful. I have gone back however and sprayed all these streaks after they were already dried for a day with BW and let that dry... didn't seam to take these streaks away.
-- Edited by Ethan Moore on Monday 25th of August 2014 07:30:46 PM
Pictures would help allot. Can you better explain what you are seeing and send some pix to accompany the description.
AC
Ethan Moore said
Aug 25, 2014
Also, as you can see here they are two story buildings and we have 21 to do with 21 detached garages. A lot of work... So I don't think a garden hose sprayer would be very efficient to wash all these buildings off with BW and I only have one soft washing pump. would you suggest buying another pump to spray BW on all these buildings just for this job? I don't think a garden hose will even reach two stories.
YOU might want to wash one without the bleach.. just use green wash ..and see if you get the same results..if you do get the streaks.it could be coming from the weep holes....put a little elbow grease to it and see if it comes off with a brush....how strong of a mix are you using...should only need about 1 or 2 %....
-- Edited by Edward Yackenovich on Monday 25th of August 2014 08:44:17 PM
Danny Cronauer said
Aug 25, 2014
We have seen this before on Tan and grey siding.. Why we don't know. You can rinse a little better, or just brush the spots thats what we have done. I have also told the home owners give a few rains if it still there after, you will wash again.
John Aloisio said
Aug 26, 2014
Are you doing any gutter brightening? If so, this might be from that. If not it is definitely the weeps. Like Danny said try a light misty rinse, and it might need a little brushing. i would avoid brushing at all cost, even if I had to rinse again with a light mist.
Tim Teed said
Aug 26, 2014
Where the siding is still wet, that is the original color of the siding. I bet the streaking is worse on the side that gets the most sun light. Those sidings fade a lot due to the oxidation/powdering on the surface. In some spots you are removing more of the oxidation than others and that is what the streaking is. Always rub your hand on those sidings to see if it comes off on your hand, that way you can advise owner that we can not remove the oxidation with softwashing. If you look up shutter renew on google, they have a system for rejuvenating shutters. It can be used on siding. As part of their system they have a cleaner that removes the oxidation with power washing or a brush. It is then coated with their product. When a pressure washer is used to clean these sidings, they are blasting off the oxidation. The key point is that the oxidation will return unless a coating or paint is applied. It is part of managing expectations.
Go buy a booster pump that the guys talk about on the message board. It will speed up rinsing 3x - 4x faster. Also buy the Gilmour hose end sprayer with the brass top. It works much better. I have one of AC's systems with the booster pump rinse pack upgrade. I can add bleach wash to the tank and quickly spray large areas through booster pump, then rinse. Call me if you have any questions.
Ethan Moore said
Aug 26, 2014
Are you doing any gutter brightening? If so, this might be from that. If not it is definitely the weeps. Like Danny said try a light misty rinse, and it might need a little brushing. i would avoid brushing at all cost, even if I had to rinse again with a light mist.
__________________
John, we are not doing any gutter brightening but we have been spraying SH on gutters and power washing the gutter faces. I think whatever SH solutions is getting into weep holes and dripping out and drying like that...
Ethan Moore said
Aug 26, 2014
Where the siding is still wet, that is the original color of the siding. I bet the streaking is worse on the side that gets the most sun light. Those sidings fade a lot due to the oxidation/powdering on the surface. In some spots you are removing more of the oxidation than others and that is what the streaking is. Always rub your hand on those sidings to see if it comes off on your hand, that way you can advise owner that we can not remove the oxidation with softwashing. If you look up shutter renew on google, they have a system for rejuvenating shutters. It can be used on siding. As part of their system they have a cleaner that removes the oxidation with power washing or a brush. It is then coated with their product. When a pressure washer is used to clean these sidings, they are blasting off the oxidation. The key point is that the oxidation will return unless a coating or paint is applied. It is part of managing expectations.
Go buy a booster pump that the guys talk about on the message board. It will speed up rinsing 3x - 4x faster. Also buy the Gilmour hose end sprayer with the brass top. It works much better. I have one of AC's systems with the booster pump rinse pack upgrade. I can add bleach wash to the tank and quickly spray large areas through booster pump, then rinse. Call me if you have any questions.
__________________
Tim, you are correct. The oxidation/powdering is worse on the side that gets the most sun. However I have even tried spraying SH and the rinsing with a power washing (not close enough to spray off oxidation, but still much more power full than a garden hose) and on the sides where I used the power washer to rinse.... It was worse. BUT, still I couldn't seam to get the streaks away even with a light mist. Part of that problem may be because its not so much a light mist when you are spraying two stories and a light mist wont reach that high. So my theory is that the SH is getting into the weep holes, we are rinsing off the siding and still pushing some of the SH solution into the weep holes, when the SH leaks back out it dries funny. The sides where we have triple rinsed do seam to look a little better but still... at least a bad streak every square yard.
Is the a local store that will carry a booster pump? Like home depot or Lowes? I will look online but if I cant find any... where do you buy your booster pumps at?
Ethan Moore said
Aug 26, 2014
"YOU might want to wash one without the bleach.. just use green wash ..and see if you get the same results..if you do get the streaks.it could be coming from the weep holes....put a little elbow grease to it and see if it comes off with a brush....how strong of a mix are you using...should only need about 1 or 2 %...."
-- Edited by Edward Yackenovich on Monday 25th of August 2014 08:44:17 PM
__________________
EDWARD M. YACKENOVICH
Edward, I am using about a 3% solution to wash the whole building but only because it needs to be that strong to clean the faces of the gutters which are almost solid black.
Question for you guys, if I were to wash a side with only green wash and no bleach, and it dried completely normal... but on a side where we sprayed the green wash WITH bleach and it dried with the streaks... wouldn't that mean that we are probably not getting off all the SH solution? I am going to try today to wash everything off with BW and see how it dries.
AC Lockyer said
Aug 26, 2014
There is huge UV derogation and oxidation on the siding. Many cleaners will cut the oxidation in places and not in others. Some cleaners even have wax and rinse aids in them. Are you using Green Wash in your mix? We have seen this a hand full if times in the last year with Green Wash use. Its very random.
AC
Ethan Moore said
Aug 26, 2014
There is huge UV derogation and oxidation on the siding. Many cleaners will cut the oxidation in places and not in others. Some cleaners even have wax and rinse aids in them. Are you using Green Wash in your mix? We have seen this a hand full if times in the last year with Green Wash use. Its very random.
AC
__________________
AC, actually this particular photo on this wall was nothing but about 3% SH being sprayed on. Maybe that's why it streaked? I will next chance I get over there try it with the traditional "green wash" 3% mixture and see if it still streaks.
It seams that spraying on the bleach wash after the SH is sprayed on helps with reducing these streaks.
Thanks AC!
Chad Eneix said
Aug 27, 2014
I personally think there could be another culprit, and that is insects. I have encountered many siding jobs where a brown to almost orangish residue comes out of the weep holes after rinsing. Insects LOVE to live behind siding in temperate climates. Here Box Elder and Asian Lady Beetles (look like ladybugs but orange) infest some houses. Both of these bugs, especially the Lady Beetles, create and brown to orange residue. Asian Lady Beetles actually have a "defensive bleeding" behavior where they bleed orange, foul smelling blood when threatened.
The staining seems fairly random, but they like lighter siding. I have heard of guys who re side houses having a pile of bug carcasses almost as big as the pile of old siding. When we encounter this we apply and rinse as gently, at a shallow angle to the siding, as possible with a broken stream. I might also suggest the 3% only on the gutters, with a 1% on the siding, if it will do the job. On real bad jobs that were big enough, I have had a spare guy (me) follow with a towel wrapped around a brush on a pole. This takes time, but over all beats going back again and again.
This can be turned in to a selling point. Regular cleaning can almost eliminate this problem. Bugs, spiders, etc, can be kept at bay with cleaning and a 1-2 time per year product application. If you have lake homes there, the cleaning/ bug&SPIDER/ window cleaning market could be huge. The surfactant is toxic to the bugs exoskeletons, and cleaning generally crates a less "buggy" environment. I also highly recommend a product called "Buggslayer" to my customers. I am looking in to getting my license to apply pesticide so I can put it on as an added service. I think I could keep one truck busy just with lake home gigs a good part of the year.
Jesse Bracken said
Aug 27, 2014
First off I'm no expert yet.... lol. But if you are spraying everything with 3% I think you are using waaayyyyyyyy too much product. I have been pretreating gutters with the same % I use to clean a roof then hitting the siding once I toned down my mix. Now I only have a single batch system and it is a PIA some times but it gets the job done... I have gone back after and used my water-fed pole with a soft rag and wiped the streaks.
I corrected another issue that was causing me excess product drainage through the siding drain ports recently. I noticed that as I sprayed up to say 2nd story siding or peaks that while using my stream tip I was blasting product directly into the drain ports.
I am using a water fed pole to fan spray higher siding now and it seems to work a lot better using less mix as well. I don't have a high end carbon fiber one yet but the heavy unger one I ght at home depot will work for the rest of this year...
Jess
oh and I have used my system to rinse with BW. Works out well since I run BW through it after cleaning anyway.
-- Edited by Jesse Bracken on Wednesday 27th of August 2014 09:19:45 AM
Ethan Moore said
Aug 27, 2014
Since I only have one system right now and its the fat boy... would anyone suggest using my transfer pump to spray the BW in order to rinse the SH that my fat boy just sprayed on? is there anything wrong with running the BW through the transfer pump?
Ethan Moore said
Aug 27, 2014
"I am using a water fed pole to fan spray higher siding now and it seems to work a lot better using less mix as well. I don't have a high end carbon fiber one yet but the heavy unger one I ght at home depot will work for the rest of this year.."
Jess, does that water fed pole attached to your system that you spray SH through? I have been trying to think of a few different ways I can get my solution to the 2nd story without blasting it way up there on the straight nozzle, because I think you are right... a lot of solution is getting into the weep holes up high because I'm having to spray with the straight tip to reach the 2nd story.
THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP!!!
-- Edited by Ethan Moore on Wednesday 27th of August 2014 02:56:05 PM
Jesse Bracken said
Aug 27, 2014
yes I have AC's water fed pole gun go to jracenstein.com and search softwash systems, the part number is 150-0951. I put a quick connect and ball valve on my spray line so I can interchange my wand and water fed pole as needed.
there are a few other odds and ends you will need to pick up to make it all work like quick disconnects and a goose neck reach around part number 157-401. Just tell them what you are looking to do and they will make sure you have everything you need.
I am not familiar with the Fat Boy system but I would think you would want to rinse the transfer pump with BW to prolong life just like you would on all other parts...
Fat Boy has 2 pumps?
Jess
Brandon Vaughn said
Aug 28, 2014
I agree with the guys on the thread - 3% mix is way too high - especially for SH. We clean siding like attached with a 1% SH solution with green wash. And we do a LOT of vinyl siding on apartment complexes.
I'd check to see what kind of water you have as well - perhaps the water is very hard where you are using it and leaving behind residue?
Alot of the application is technique. Using a pole with AC's pole tip is a phenomenal tool to get up high. We routinely clean 3 story buildings with no ladders. Booster pump is a must in my opinion when doing apartment complexes. You'll cut down 20% or more of your time with one.
Is the mix by chance getting a chance to dry before you get back to rinse it? It looks like from the picture it is evaporating as you spray it.
-- Edited by Brandon Vaughn on Thursday 28th of August 2014 12:24:57 AM
Ethan, 3% is WAY TOO HOT for vinyl siding. Please see module on Surface Spraying Techniques.
AC
Ethan Moore said
Aug 29, 2014
I have actually mis-spoke, I went back and recalculated the % of SH and it probably closer to 1%... Here's why. For me to get bleach at 10% SH here it is about $7 a gallon.. cheapest place around me that sells it. So until I find a cheaper way to buy at 10% I have been using 8.25% SH at just under $3 a gallon.
I have a 65 gallon tank, I did 10 gallons of the 8.25% SH, about 80oz of green wash and about 53 gallons of water.
Ethan Moore said
Aug 29, 2014
I don't know if you will be able to see in this video... but this is what I went back to today. I washed everything with 1%SH green wash.. then Bleach Wash and the final rinse. As you can see, the newer (darker) siding does not have the oxidation and does not dry with the bad streaks.
-- Edited by Ethan Moore on Friday 29th of August 2014 09:51:29 PM
In this pic I have washed all siding with 1%SH Green wash and then bleach wash and then final rinse. You can see where my hand is.. my hand is showing you where a streak has dried bad on the old oxidized siding. You can also see that the siding around it is darker and newer.
SO that is my biggest problem and I just found it out today that some of the walls are new siding and some of the walls are old siding and you cant really tell until you either rub all the walls or wash them and then you see the bad steaks on the old siding.
Bob Riddick as been kind enough to spend some time on the phone with me talking to me about Gutter Grenade and how it helped him in a situation exactly like this a few weeks ago. So I really appreciate everyone one here! I'm excited about learning more and becoming the leading business in the exterior cleaning industry here in MO.
Great news. Good to see you got it licked. We here at SoftWash Systems really try to make superior products and give world class support. I am glad the bb was a great toil for you to work this out.
AC
Bob Riddick said
Sep 1, 2014
Thanks for the shout out, Ethan, but I need to give the credit to Ray Burke from Spray Wash and Doug Ford from Mid South Pro Wash. They had the answer for me when I had a similar situation. I was passing on what I had learned from two of the best in the industry.
This is a remarkable community! Good luck with the F13.
PHOTO: You can see in this photo that the darker streaks are still drying and will dry the same as the other streaks you see all over the siding. Is this because the SH is getting behind the siding and not being washed off enough? I doubt that though because we have tried washing it very thoroughly. However I have not been back to try and wash off the SH while all the siding is still wet. example, Spray on SH, rinse off with water, Spray on BW, Rinse off with water. This may work but I am doubtful. I have gone back however and sprayed all these streaks after they were already dried for a day with BW and let that dry... didn't seam to take these streaks away.
-- Edited by Ethan Moore on Monday 25th of August 2014 07:30:46 PM
Pictures would help allot. Can you better explain what you are seeing and send some pix to accompany the description.
AC
Also, as you can see here they are two story buildings and we have 21 to do with 21 detached garages. A lot of work... So I don't think a garden hose sprayer would be very efficient to wash all these buildings off with BW and I only have one soft washing pump. would you suggest buying another pump to spray BW on all these buildings just for this job? I don't think a garden hose will even reach two stories.
YOU might want to wash one without the bleach.. just use green wash ..and see if you get the same results..if you do get the streaks.it could be coming from the weep holes....put a little elbow grease to it and see if it comes off with a brush....how strong of a mix are you using...should only need about 1 or 2 %....
-- Edited by Edward Yackenovich on Monday 25th of August 2014 08:44:17 PM
Are you doing any gutter brightening? If so, this might be from that. If not it is definitely the weeps. Like Danny said try a light misty rinse, and it might need a little brushing. i would avoid brushing at all cost, even if I had to rinse again with a light mist.
Go buy a booster pump that the guys talk about on the message board. It will speed up rinsing 3x - 4x faster. Also buy the Gilmour hose end sprayer with the brass top. It works much better. I have one of AC's systems with the booster pump rinse pack upgrade. I can add bleach wash to the tank and quickly spray large areas through booster pump, then rinse. Call me if you have any questions.
Are you doing any gutter brightening? If so, this might be from that. If not it is definitely the weeps. Like Danny said try a light misty rinse, and it might need a little brushing. i would avoid brushing at all cost, even if I had to rinse again with a light mist.
__________________
John, we are not doing any gutter brightening but we have been spraying SH on gutters and power washing the gutter faces. I think whatever SH solutions is getting into weep holes and dripping out and drying like that...
Go buy a booster pump that the guys talk about on the message board. It will speed up rinsing 3x - 4x faster. Also buy the Gilmour hose end sprayer with the brass top. It works much better. I have one of AC's systems with the booster pump rinse pack upgrade. I can add bleach wash to the tank and quickly spray large areas through booster pump, then rinse. Call me if you have any questions.
__________________
Tim, you are correct. The oxidation/powdering is worse on the side that gets the most sun. However I have even tried spraying SH and the rinsing with a power washing (not close enough to spray off oxidation, but still much more power full than a garden hose) and on the sides where I used the power washer to rinse.... It was worse. BUT, still I couldn't seam to get the streaks away even with a light mist. Part of that problem may be because its not so much a light mist when you are spraying two stories and a light mist wont reach that high. So my theory is that the SH is getting into the weep holes, we are rinsing off the siding and still pushing some of the SH solution into the weep holes, when the SH leaks back out it dries funny. The sides where we have triple rinsed do seam to look a little better but still... at least a bad streak every square yard.
Is the a local store that will carry a booster pump? Like home depot or Lowes? I will look online but if I cant find any... where do you buy your booster pumps at?
"YOU might want to wash one without the bleach.. just use green wash ..and see if you get the same results..if you do get the streaks.it could be coming from the weep holes....put a little elbow grease to it and see if it comes off with a brush....how strong of a mix are you using...should only need about 1 or 2 %...."
-- Edited by Edward Yackenovich on Monday 25th of August 2014 08:44:17 PM
__________________
EDWARD M. YACKENOVICH
Edward, I am using about a 3% solution to wash the whole building but only because it needs to be that strong to clean the faces of the gutters which are almost solid black.
Question for you guys, if I were to wash a side with only green wash and no bleach, and it dried completely normal... but on a side where we sprayed the green wash WITH bleach and it dried with the streaks... wouldn't that mean that we are probably not getting off all the SH solution? I am going to try today to wash everything off with BW and see how it dries.
AC
There is huge UV derogation and oxidation on the siding. Many cleaners will cut the oxidation in places and not in others. Some cleaners even have wax and rinse aids in them. Are you using Green Wash in your mix? We have seen this a hand full if times in the last year with Green Wash use. Its very random.
AC
__________________
AC, actually this particular photo on this wall was nothing but about 3% SH being sprayed on. Maybe that's why it streaked? I will next chance I get over there try it with the traditional "green wash" 3% mixture and see if it still streaks.
It seams that spraying on the bleach wash after the SH is sprayed on helps with reducing these streaks.
Thanks AC!
The staining seems fairly random, but they like lighter siding. I have heard of guys who re side houses having a pile of bug carcasses almost as big as the pile of old siding. When we encounter this we apply and rinse as gently, at a shallow angle to the siding, as possible with a broken stream. I might also suggest the 3% only on the gutters, with a 1% on the siding, if it will do the job. On real bad jobs that were big enough, I have had a spare guy (me) follow with a towel wrapped around a brush on a pole. This takes time, but over all beats going back again and again.
This can be turned in to a selling point. Regular cleaning can almost eliminate this problem. Bugs, spiders, etc, can be kept at bay with cleaning and a 1-2 time per year product application. If you have lake homes there, the cleaning/ bug&SPIDER/ window cleaning market could be huge. The surfactant is toxic to the bugs exoskeletons, and cleaning generally crates a less "buggy" environment. I also highly recommend a product called "Buggslayer" to my customers. I am looking in to getting my license to apply pesticide so I can put it on as an added service. I think I could keep one truck busy just with lake home gigs a good part of the year.
First off I'm no expert yet.... lol. But if you are spraying everything with 3% I think you are using waaayyyyyyyy too much product. I have been pretreating gutters with the same % I use to clean a roof then hitting the siding once I toned down my mix. Now I only have a single batch system and it is a PIA some times but it gets the job done... I have gone back after and used my water-fed pole with a soft rag and wiped the streaks.
I corrected another issue that was causing me excess product drainage through the siding drain ports recently. I noticed that as I sprayed up to say 2nd story siding or peaks that while using my stream tip I was blasting product directly into the drain ports.
I am using a water fed pole to fan spray higher siding now and it seems to work a lot better using less mix as well. I don't have a high end carbon fiber one yet but the heavy unger one I ght at home depot will work for the rest of this year...
Jess
oh and I have used my system to rinse with BW. Works out well since I run BW through it after cleaning anyway.
-- Edited by Jesse Bracken on Wednesday 27th of August 2014 09:19:45 AM
"I am using a water fed pole to fan spray higher siding now and it seems to work a lot better using less mix as well. I don't have a high end carbon fiber one yet but the heavy unger one I ght at home depot will work for the rest of this year.."
Jess
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Jess, does that water fed pole attached to your system that you spray SH through? I have been trying to think of a few different ways I can get my solution to the 2nd story without blasting it way up there on the straight nozzle, because I think you are right... a lot of solution is getting into the weep holes up high because I'm having to spray with the straight tip to reach the 2nd story.
THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP!!!
-- Edited by Ethan Moore on Wednesday 27th of August 2014 02:56:05 PM
there are a few other odds and ends you will need to pick up to make it all work like quick disconnects and a goose neck reach around part number 157-401. Just tell them what you are looking to do and they will make sure you have everything you need.
I am not familiar with the Fat Boy system but I would think you would want to rinse the transfer pump with BW to prolong life just like you would on all other parts...
Fat Boy has 2 pumps?
Jess
I agree with the guys on the thread - 3% mix is way too high - especially for SH. We clean siding like attached with a 1% SH solution with green wash. And we do a LOT of vinyl siding on apartment complexes.
I'd check to see what kind of water you have as well - perhaps the water is very hard where you are using it and leaving behind residue?
Alot of the application is technique. Using a pole with AC's pole tip is a phenomenal tool to get up high. We routinely clean 3 story buildings with no ladders. Booster pump is a must in my opinion when doing apartment complexes. You'll cut down 20% or more of your time with one.
Is the mix by chance getting a chance to dry before you get back to rinse it? It looks like from the picture it is evaporating as you spray it.
-- Edited by Brandon Vaughn on Thursday 28th of August 2014 12:24:57 AM
AC
I have a 65 gallon tank, I did 10 gallons of the 8.25% SH, about 80oz of green wash and about 53 gallons of water.
I don't know if you will be able to see in this video... but this is what I went back to today. I washed everything with 1%SH green wash.. then Bleach Wash and the final rinse. As you can see, the newer (darker) siding does not have the oxidation and does not dry with the bad streaks.
-- Edited by Ethan Moore on Friday 29th of August 2014 09:51:29 PM
In this pic I have washed all siding with 1%SH Green wash and then bleach wash and then final rinse. You can see where my hand is.. my hand is showing you where a streak has dried bad on the old oxidized siding. You can also see that the siding around it is darker and newer.
SO that is my biggest problem and I just found it out today that some of the walls are new siding and some of the walls are old siding and you cant really tell until you either rub all the walls or wash them and then you see the bad steaks on the old siding.
Bob Riddick as been kind enough to spend some time on the phone with me talking to me about Gutter Grenade and how it helped him in a situation exactly like this a few weeks ago. So I really appreciate everyone one here! I'm excited about learning more and becoming the leading business in the exterior cleaning industry here in MO.
AC
Thanks for the shout out, Ethan, but I need to give the credit to Ray Burke from Spray Wash and Doug Ford from Mid South Pro Wash. They had the answer for me when I had a similar situation. I was passing on what I had learned from two of the best in the industry.
This is a remarkable community! Good luck with the F13.